Vote Veil

Transcript

Yo, what's up? It's me again. Today with another post, another idea. Feels like it's been going a bit too crazy with the ideas and implementations, but, you know, trying to make the most out of clod. So why not, you know, experimentation? If we're not looking for new things, we may as well just give up, you know, trying to improve things, trying to look at different... angles, different, etc. Anyway, so today I'm back with one idea I've had for a while now, which it kind of came to me based on the lack of use of downvotes on Hive. And I know most of you may like shy up. The point is to make more welcoming. And first of all, I need to mention that this is in no way we're going to... affect your Hive boats, or it's not even a token really yet, it's just a point system to begin with, but I'm a bit right now. So, as you all know, Hive has some kind of boat trading culture, people with similar stakes, try to maximize rewards by shaking hands with other people of similar stakes. They're like, hey, If you vote for me, I'll give you a vote back and, you know, we'll both have higher author rewards because of it. Let's, you know, let's ignore all the other people who are also putting in effort or trying to do valuable things for the ecosystem. Let's just focus on our own gains, on our own APR, on our own growth rate. which I'm not really a big fan of, like, to a certain degree, you know, like, some vote trading here and there between friends is fine, but if it's all based on just, like, you know, that you get the same amount of vote value back as you give out, you may as well just, like, delegate to a project that openly gives you a 10 times bigger vote where you're just like... simply vote trading them, pretending to, you know, have friends or partners or whatever. And the other thing is that... One second, I just need to respond to a message real quick. Hope you can't hear the keyboard. Okay, so the other issue is downvote drama, of course. Like, if you... Even if you're down what is valid, people will always dislike the person casting it, no matter what. I mean, not always, maybe there's sometimes there's been people who've understood where I'm coming from with my reward adjustment. They've been like, okay, I understand, you know, I'll, like, I'll accept it or whatever. But most of the time, it's just... Even if they say they accept it, they may just say it because they don't want to start drama or want to, this down border to, like, remember them, to come back to them after. Even if it's not personal to begin with, a lot of people have this sort of, like, fear or whatever, and they dislike the people removing pending rewards, which is just human nature, really. So without getting too much into this, like, I'm sure all of you have experienced this, either on your own accounts, or you've seen how this happen to others every now and then. Not that it happens often, but it happens still, and most of the time it just causes drama, finger-pointing, blaming everyone else. while they're always, like, guilt-free or, you know, they've not done anything wrong ever. It just creates, like, a bad user experience for everyone involved, and the general, like, mood or morale is just killed. And even, like, for the downvorder themselves, they, if they engage in explaining, if they engage in responding, it just never ends well from my own experience, kind of like a waste of time, while at the same time downloading gives the downloader nothing in return. So the same issue is with voting trails and autovotes. They also kind of go crazy at times, they vote people automatically, they don't care if that content that day is... pretty garbage or if the effort is not there, they still give them the same amount of votes. I'm on the receiving end of one of, like, a pretty big auto-votion trail, probably auto-vote trail, and trail votes as well. So, like, I try not to take advantage of it, but, you know, most people don't care. They, they're just their effort, their engagement. drops, their, you know, quality, their care for the rewards, drops if they're constantly getting the same votes no matter what they post. Like, while the idea behind auto votes and trails is good, it, like, it isn't really handled well when the actors, like, doing the auto votes, don't check on them too often. Lastly, Evergreen Rewards, that's a big thing people talk about, like, why can't I get upvotes on my old posts from new users who joined the platform, or stakeholders who missed that vote, that post back then, why aren't able to cast their vote on top of it, if they missed the post, etc. They don't like that it's not ever green. They don't like that if their posts get found later through SEO or just when you find a new author or a new community and you go and look at older posts or the top posts of that community and you want to reward them more without votes. It can't happen on high because of the seven-day window, which, as far as I know, is a blockchain level. limitation like keeping it keeping the window open for too long probably like costs memory or something which makes it unfeasible all right so let's go man it's been already eight minutes and I haven't really gotten to the core idea yet all right so the idea with this token this point system this experiment is that we and you make everything anonymous that we can. Part of this is voting. Up votes and downvotes are anonymous. And how do we accomplish this? We don't post the transaction on chain. Like the, when you vote something, it doesn't go on chain. When you download something, it doesn't go unchain. and it doesn't reflect on any pending rewards to the post either. So this is something that's probably going to push a lot of people out already. If they can't see the pending rewards, then, you know, that dopamine effect is going to go away. They're like, oh, I have liked to wait until tomorrow to find out how much I've earned. Like, you know, most people in this day and age with TikTok and... Instagram and low attention spans and wanting that dopamine hit are not going to like that, but the idea is that it improves some other things. So if you download a post and in our experiment, the person receiving the downvote, the post receiving the downvote, is not going to know who... cast a downvote. So this removes the retaliation factor. This removes the complaining factor. Like, they may complain, you know, in their next post that they didn't get anything or they got the less than they expected. But complaining about downvots usually doesn't really do you any favors. The other thing that's important in this is that even if you go directly to your friend, your big stakeholder friend or whatever, and you're like, hey, here's my link to my recent post, upvoted. They can say that they did, but you won't know if they did or not. Think he did upvote the post, and even if he tries and tells you, confirms that he did, even if he shows you like a recording, a live recording or whatever, that he uploaded your post, you have to believe him first. He may, you know, remove the upload, if he finds you annoying but doesn't want to say to your face. But even like if he uploads your post, even if you're boat trading with someone, even if you're buying boats from that person, and you know for sure that he's upvoted it, there may still be curators who've downvoted it because of suspicion of, you know, vote begging, vote buying, or vote trading. So there's basically no stream of votes at all. You don't see who's upboarding who. You don't see who's upvoting who. You don't see who's posts pay out. All right, so, also, trailing can't happen because to trail votes, you need to be able to read the vote transaction on chain, but here's, there's no chain, everything happens on the front end. So you can't really, I mean, you'll probably, people will probably be able to find out how to auto vote. I don't say we're like completely immune to that. But the idea is that manual curation will outperform auto-votes, especially if downvotes are used more frequently and at no, you know, at no cost to the downvoter. Alright, so we're going through the front end, so it displays all the posts that... show up on Hive as well. Comments, of course, also show up and who the author and the user behind the comment is. Everything shows, so there can be like a layer where people leave comments and they're like, yay, yo, I uploaded you on this front end, but if you decide to trust them or not, that's up to you, you know, like, it's... they won't be able to prove that they did upload you, and even if they prove it, there's still people who can download without telling you, there might be people who tell you that they've downloaded you, like the whole idea is to remove that part from the equation. So yeah, you log in with Hive Key Chain, you just prove that you own the posting key. You get some tokens based on your high power. When you vote, you just sign a message, no transaction, no broadcast at all. So nobody sees anything, only the database. Everything goes into the database. Payout daily. We can start with daily, but we can put like a no limit. So older posts from new voters can still get upvotes. And meaning, you know, if someone missed your post the first day, and he really loves your content, loves your, like, you as the author, they can go and upload older posts. And, you know, We still have to figure out how downboats enter in that scope. Is there abuse? Is there going to be diminishing returns on boats on older posts? Is there diminishing returns on voting for the same author all the time? But also, we are not, we don't want to, like, give away too much. But the idea is that, uh, what's, what's the word, like, The idea is that even us as the creators of the experiment don't see the votes at all, because then that would make us, you know, the ones who know the truth, they will open up like a leeway for exploitation, for starting drama or whatever when we're like... Oh yeah, we can confirm that this user has never upvoted you, even though he said that he has. So, like, we want to take ourselves out of that equation as well, so no one really knows how the votes are being done. They just get distributed by the experiment and the project itself. Secureation mechanics, it could be pretty similar, stake -based voting, similar as Hive. 25% downward mana is probably enough. We could experiment with different curation splits because the idea here is that it is heavy curation work. In this experiment, we may open it up to like 20, 30, 40 daily boats instead of just a 10, maybe start with 20 and see how people, if people like that. Of course, you will be able to scale them, like give 20, 30% votes. But in general, like, I think 10 full votes per day have been a bit too low. We may experiment with a different recharge mechanism. Like, maybe it's not, you know, maybe it doesn't take five days to regain your full mana. Maybe it's, like, one day is enough, or... a week, like, we'll, there's a lot of things we can experiment with. We're not going to change the curve, we're going to keep that as it is, where, you know, as long as you get past the dust threshold, like we may not need a dust threshold, well, we probably are going to need a dust threshold to prevent spam. But... and I think we're going to change to like a quadratic curation curve or something, you know, other than linear. But there will be, you know, like with downloads being more common, it'll mean that curation returns will fluctuate a lot more than usual. So that's kind of like the behavior we want to look at and see how we can. improve and fine-tune it. There's also issues with anonymous downloads, of course, you know, personal vendettas, stalking, brigading. Like, if you go to your group of friends and you're like, hey, everyone, let's download this user, let's download him every day, let's download him, you know, etc., etc. So, we want to... implement some kind of diminishing returns if it's only the same people downloading the same author over and over and over again. We, you know, this is going to be experimental. If they really, like, if the author really deserves it, we will need to see some signs of new curators entering the download window over time. So it's not just like the same users onboarding them for different reasons. But of course, if there's some people who are being targeted, it'll show, I think this is the next point. So we will be showing reward history. We won't be showing pending rewards, but we will be showing like the history of user rewards. meaning on every post it'll show next to the username that hey the last seven days or the last seven posts these user has earned this and this much the last 30 posts he's earned this like the median post rewards so that this also will reveal then if there are personal vendetta direct the downvotes occurring, others are able to step in and upvote these posts higher while the initial downvoters, their downvots are going to, like, diminish in strength. And, yeah, there's, like, there's some more things to think about there. Okay, so there's, like, other things that's being discussed here. It's personalized feed, of course, like a 4U feed based on your upvote history. If you just want to, you know, log in that day and just cast votes real quick, you don't have time to do proper duration. There's a feed for you based on your history. And what is going to be also other feeds, like trending, one that takes... you have to remember that we are not doing any feeds based on pending rewards so we have to like take into account other things such as engagement we have to take into account things like post reward history or I mean past reward history and you know stuff like that discovery discovery mode this I already think I talked about I had to take a small break to drink something, but yeah, so that's basically like the idea you can take a pause on the video and read this if you want, but it's basically like, just an experiment to see how curation, how the trending and hot algorithms would, what they would show if downboats are more common. And again, like this, all of this happens on a different front end, where all of the upboats and downvotes aren't actually on a hive. They're all, you're just signing a hive keychain window. and it's storing it in the database, and then once every day, it'll show all the posts from yesterday what rewards they received, if they received any rewards. We may have to show, like, if some didn't get curated at all, or if they got downvoted, to, like, make sure that people know that this user is at zero because nobody curated him, and not because somebody downvoted him. Like, there's some things we're going to show, of course, but the idea is to remove the whole personal vote, you know, P2P voting completely, so it's, so it's a bit more like Reddit where you don't know who downloaded you, what, you just know that people downvoted you, and that's, you know, kind of like, why you're not seen as much, or your post didn't get as much seen. But at the same time, letting people curate feeds, curate community feeds, maybe some want to check feeds of controversial posts, meaning those that have gotten downloaded a lot to make sure that there's nothing fishy, nothing personal in there. So if they want to spend their download on something that is edgy or... shouldn't have gotten down, but in their opinion, they can go there and curate. And the whole reward distribution, leaderboards, that's, we still have to, like, fine-tune a lot of things, like, we don't want to punish people who do good downvotes, just because somebody else is, like, over-voting those posts. We don't want to count them as, like, a bad downvoter. Like there's things to still experiment with, look deeper, but I think it's worth experimenting with this to begin with because if we learn something valuable from here, if we see that something works well because of something that we've developed here, then this is, you know, it's a strength to high because there's no other blockchain right now that's creating or even, like, has gone as far as we have with curation and, like, how everything on Hive works, our main, like, inflation, distribution. So, I feel like a lot of tokens in the past have not really experimented much at all. Most of them have been just pure proof of brain voting based on, you know, who you up with your hive votes as well. or just, you know, token command tipping, which is also not pretty and very spammy and abusive in general, in my opinion. This is to keep, like, it's more focused on curators doing a good job and being rewarded for it. And at the same time, authors, they don't really lose anything out on this. They're still getting their hive payouts. still getting their high votes but if they become curious they'll still have like a 30 maybe 40% distribution of the token here that they can come login and claim if we ever become an actual token rather than a point system so yeah let me know your thoughts like there's probably like a lot of you know things vectors angles I haven't thought of but Yeah, I had cloud, like, write this up, took it only, like, 15 minutes, and this is what it came out with. It's a bit slow, because it's just running locally right now. But, yeah, I haven't signed in yet. The idea is that you up-water download, rewards don't show, until, you know... after one day or whatever we could even make it lower, we could make it higher. So yeah, that's pretty much the idea. Let me know what you think, and I'll continue working on this here a little bit more today before I start to rotate back into some other projects I've started. All right, thanks for listening. See you next time.

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